Saad Eddin Ibrahim: America has provided 1.4 billion dollars for the training of cadres of the Muslim Brotherhood and others in Egypt and Serbia

Mahmoud Ezzat is «the most dangerous man» within the group and «great puzzle» in the relationship of the Muslim Brotherhood in America

Wrote: Mona Madkour Saturday 29/12/2012 08:08

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Saad Eddin Ibrahim speaks to the "home"

Remarks by Dr. Saad Eddin Ibrahim, director of the Center «Ibn Khaldun», in the first part of his interview for «home», the case of the dialectic is great, especially with regard to the relationship Brotherhood, the army and the scenes of the revolution, which was announced for the first time, and during the second part of the dialogue continue d. Saad Eddin Ibrahim reveal more of the secrets of the Brotherhood and their relationship with America.

He said the Brotherhood deny to others what Istbihouna for themselves, they unfortunately «more than face», stressing that the documents Wikileaks expose all dealings with the Muslim Brotherhood and the security of the state delegates and agents of foreign intelligence services.

And that the militia is the black box of the Muslim Brotherhood is not unlikely to be the «third party», pointing out that a former interior ministers told him that the Muslim Brotherhood and Ahamsaoyen burned section 28 and broke into the prison during the revolution of January 25.

Documents «Wikileaks» expose dealings with the Muslim Brotherhood and the security of the state delegates and agents of foreign intelligence services

• Why strained relationship with the Muslim Brotherhood to a complete break, even though you're supporting them in the reign of Mubarak?

- Because I know everything about them and they are afraid that Okhvhm of public opinion and they do not want anyone reveal these secrets, if at all this is to be expected and deal with their attitude to the principle of «Fear of the evil done to him».

• Some may not know that you were the link between the Americans and the Muslim Brotherhood since 2003, will repeat this after the revolution of January 25?

- Yes, the Americans contacted through me after the revolution, and specifically asked to contact both Senator John Kerry (Democrat) and Senator John McCain (Republican Party), they want to open a dialogue with the currents.

• Why are determined to currents together, so one should not lose their currents account for the other?

- They have the point of view about this trend which is trying to control all the parties, Li said a leader of the Brotherhood, frankly, when I asked him the same question «we are we want to be uniform Israel» Democratic and Republican parties Ikhtaban Dr. Israel, and the Muslim Brotherhood have great hope in it, and access to that power Foreign Affairs, I was amazed a lot of his words and was amazed to be Israel for the Muslim Brotherhood, for example, higher, he said to me «The political tactics require that».

• Is not this trend duplication?

- Is as well, but I remember the strange incident may indicate the nature of the thinking of the Muslim Brotherhood in things, On one occasion called me Shater and asked me to mediate in order to enter his daughter's American University in Cairo, told him surprising: Never Say by the University of Satan, he said, we go for quality - ie, we are looking for qualitative, I said to him, even if it's the University of Satan? He said to me: «Even if the devil University Hedjhalha» .. I think it was a clear message in that their beliefs are not inconsistent with the public interest.

• The U.S. administration faced a blistering attack on the United States to spend 1.4 billion dollars to support the Muslim Brotherhood, they deny and say the army is the recipient .. Where is the truth?

- This money did not go to the army they «they could tell any need» But the fact that 1.4 billion dollars went to the process of democratic transition, and specifically in the training of cadres too many of all groups, including the Muslim Brotherhood, In all the training was for these cadres there was a faction of the Muslim Brotherhood attend, whether in Egypt or Serbia or in other countries has been the holding of these exercises, this Ostgrabhm much when accused of the April 6 Movement employment and they were with them at the same workouts, especially, which was in Serbia and this big secret no one knows, Brotherhood deny on others what Istbihouna for themselves! Understanding unfortunately «more than face».

• 30 personal Muslim Brotherhood traveled to America before the announcement of the result of the presidential election, do you have any information about the scenes of these meetings?

- Went delegation of the Muslim Brotherhood to anyone who is interested in Washington, whether that person is in the White House, the U.S. State Department, Congress, the Pentagon (DoD), the headquarters of the CIA CIA, some American newspapers renowned (The Washington Post, The New York Times, Herald Tribune), some specialized research centers (such as Freedom House and Carnegie) went to all these places, the message was one of all is that the Brotherhood will not be harmed U.S. interests in bad, but on the contrary we are open to maximize common interests.

• Who was behind the order of these meetings?

- Khairat Al-Shater, but it did not exist.

Shater described by the American University «University of Satan» However Satty and asked his daughter to accept the

• Did not any of the members of the delegation to embarrassing situations during the visit?

- This visit was not out of anything, but the visit Essam el-Erian and Essam mourning for the last two America was with them a lot of embarrassment against the Muslim Brotherhood, has had three demonstrations against the Brotherhood in New York alone, and the District of them in many places, which had wanted to.

• I was the first to open the channels of communication between America and the Muslim Brotherhood since 2009, it was the architect of these negotiations by the Muslim Brotherhood?

- Shater and Essam el-Erian; because they both had me in jail and they were part of the political dialogues which Fathnaha with the Europeans since the beginning of 2003 in the Swiss Club in Imbaba and it happened three times, and their meetings with the Americans were a little delayed because the U.S. ambassador in Cairo could not get the authorization from Washington to allow him to meet them, it was the events of Sept. 11 still affect the U.S. decisions, but he was a friend of the British Ambassador, Canadian, Australian, who meet with the Brotherhood, then U.S. ambassador sitting with them to see the results of these dialogues.

• What are the main points which were revolve around these dialogues common?

- 3 key points was going dialogue around which if you come to power what will be the position of each of the «Western powers - the agenda of the Brotherhood of the Interior and specifically the position of non-Muslims and their position of women and the freedom of creativity and culture - their position on the peace treaty and Israel ..» The Europeans and the Americans RESPOND «based on your responses will determine the extent of its acceptance and Chereitkm».

• This means that the Brotherhood began to promote the process of the transition of power to them early?

- This is not a timing early in the world of politics, In foreign policy there is always a dedicated team of strategic thinking about the future plans for the poll, which extends for thirty years, and the Americans have these plans since the seventies.

• Is it true that Shater had a secret code with the American administration?

- Each person deals with the U.S. administration certainly has a secret code that is defined through which decision-makers Americans.

• frequency that was clever take individual decisions in relation to the U.S. administration, which prompted Dr. Abdel Moneim Abul Fotouh to split from the group in protest at the policy-Shater.

- Split Obwafattouh had a conflict of interest and a collision between the two Aftmohathma personal were conflicting, both of which was a rising star and each major popular and supporters within the group and specifically youth group, and there was a conflict Maktoum between Monday and ended up that won Shater in this conflict.

• of «big secret» in the relationship of the Muslim Brotherhood in America, who talked about the former leadership of the Muslim Brotherhood Tharwat Kherpauy in his latest book, without mentioning his name explicitly?

- There are 3 or 4 characters candidate for this title .. But I can not disclosed .. Guli you name and I answer yes or no.

• Is Dr. Mahmoud Ezzat?

- (After a moment of silence) .. Yes .. Is the most dangerous man in the group, a «big secret» or «great puzzle» America's relationship with the Muslim Brotherhood.

• What do you know him personally?

- Have not met him very much, but my impressions of him as a man silent stainless do not talk much, it takes more than it gives, someone who has a strong prestige, smug, asking and answering a lot less than asking!

• Why has Mahmoud Ezzat this weight with the group and the Americans together?

- For several reasons, including finance, personal history, as it has a great weight abroad, he has lived a long time in America and was able to open the channels of communication are large and complex in Washington, and many U.S. states not only in the White House and the U.S. administration, but open channels of communication complex as well in the homes of political experience and research centers, which performs the same role played by Faisal Nada in Europe.

• there was talk of combining the subtle relationship «Huma Abidin - Assistant U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and former under which the second» Ms. Najla Marina and the organization of Muslim Sisters?

- This file specifically do not know anything about him, but I met with the leadership of the Brotherhood late Zaynab al-Ghazali in a airport 15 years ago and was heading to America, Vtaraft them during the long journey we talked about many of the things that pertain to torture the Muslim Brotherhood at the hands of Nasser, and revealed to me that it was established organized a secret Muslim sisters and Guidance Office opposed this idea a long time to be approved by the end, the organization works to remain in secret for fear of the eyes of the security.

• sparked talk about near the release site Wikileaks set of confidential documents, which belong to the Brotherhood and their relationship with America, controversy and great fear among the Muslim Brotherhood, what could be its contents of these documents?

- Expose all their dealings with the state security services and their interviews and their relationships with clients and delegates of intelligence agencies of some foreign countries, and some foreign officials who were visiting Egypt and they are met by the Muslim Brotherhood in the strictest confidence.

• How would you describe the image that the Brotherhood after they arrived to judge both the popular and official in America?

- At the grassroots level I think that Washington, Veregina, Merryland is the States that cares about the Americans affairs of the world and the Middle East, does not exceed the area of ​​these States combined 600 square kilometers with a population of about 50 million dollars, and the elite of America believes that the future of Egypt is important for the relationship of America and the peace treaty and secure Israel as well as America's relationship with Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states, but, at the official level, there is now a kind of review of the decision of the institutions of American research about what the work of monitoring devices, especially as a revolution in Tunisia was supposed to provide a clear indication of the possibility of transmission of revolution to Egypt , and I've been in the White House at that time, but I was very close to the circle of decision-making in Washington during the revolution of January 25, there are two schools, one refers to the need to deal with the government on the ground (a school of realism in American politics), whether the Muslim Brotherhood or any stream of political Islam, the second school says that these powers are not necessarily hostile to America but wants to serve the interests of itself, and thus amenable to dialogue, then dramatically (look pragmatic) can be dealt with accordingly.

• How do you see the future of US-Egyptian relations?

- Egyptian-American relations will go up 80% as it was during the rule of Mubarak, in the sense that there are constants and common interests will not change in the rule of the Muslim Brotherhood, but he knows politics says that there is no permanent friends or permanent enemies, but there are the interests of the list, and the two sides the U.S. and Egypt are keen on it, According to this relationship will continue in this high percentage in compatibility.

• Did not make sense that there is a change in this relationship after the arrival of the Muslim Brotherhood to power, especially after the January 25 revolution?

- No it is not logical, because the capital is the only rule of changed in Egypt and America, but the institutions themselves and their approach did not differ, Fastmraria institutions do not rely on the big heads, but the system continuously .. It is common mistakes among Egyptians and Arabs believe that once you change the head will change the whole system! But this is a mistake, and the directory where we are now, would you change anything in Egypt after he took berth ruling? Do not ever .. We are a society of the rivers! Tends to stability in everything. The revolution for a big change, but the final outcome will not be more than 20% only for him than the Revolution.

• Is not this pessimistic analysis?

- When we examine anything in this world we have to start with three things: family, friends, neighbors .. Has anything changed in the life of this great three circles after the revolution? She eventually changes will not exceed 20% of the total of their lives than before the revolution.

• rumored a lot about the existence of a relationship of some leaders of the Muslim Brotherhood organization Masonic Lodge?

- There is a regulatory sense, but is not ideological between the Brotherhood and the Masons, and I have a special certificate from Mr. Jamal Al Banna, the younger brother of Hassan al-Banna, I asked him once why not join the Muslim Brotherhood, said to me, because they organize «Leninist Masonic»; Leninist terms of stiffness regulation and Masonic in terms of confidentiality, and I love to work in the light.

• Other rumors talked about the presence of a U.S. base in Egypt .. Do you have certain information about it?

- Yes, there is a U.S. air base in an area called «BANIYAS» in the Red Sea which existed before that the Chairman Mohamed Morsi rule, and continued with the Muslim Brotherhood, and everyone denies their existence, including a spokesman for the armed forces, but I tell them how I knew her name and information If it were not true? How do I know an area called «BANIYAS» in the Red Sea? They said it is just a place to provide facilities for the aircraft by the friendly countries .. In the end, the base is the place to provide facilities regardless of the nature or duration of these facilities.

• Have you tried to America in secret negotiations with the Brotherhood at this stage for the establishment of U.S. bases again?

- Did not happen, and I believe that America does not need more than a base in Egypt, they have aircraft carriers in the Gulf and the Indian as well as the Sixth Fleet in the Mediterranean and the seventh in the Indian Ocean.

America has an air base in «BANIYAS» Red Sea since the Mubarak era and do not persist even now

• you are a mediator between the jihadists and the military council after the Sinai bombings, it prompted this mediation?

- The Jihadist organization's leaders, and it occurred after the Sinai bombings, which explicitly asked me to mediate with the military council to sit down with him, and quoted a member of the military council and has already been gathered them to arrange a meeting with members of military intelligence, and at this point, a regular stop.

• Can be declared the names of these jihadists and why they ask you specifically you this mediation?

- Most notably Sheikh Nabil Naim, and they asked me this demand precisely because many of them were in prison with me.

• Do you think that the dream of the Islamic Emirate, which promoted Brotherhood doable?

- Muslim Brotherhood is seeking to it, but they inevitably fail completely and failing to see the many reasons, the first being the lack of a realistic goal, so how could turn Egypt into an Islamic state with its capital in Jerusalem and the land of Muslims, geographical stretch from Indonesia to Mauritania .. This we call the search for Paradise Lost! This imagination of successive generations of Muslims since the end of the first succession of good and virtuous life in the community, and according to Islamic law .. With the history of the Islamic caliphate was not virtuous as some imagine, according to a biography written heritage and the biography of the Islamic caliphate did not live this period virtuous but in the era of Omar ibn al-Khattab, Omar Abdulaziz throughout the four centuries since the dawn of Islam only.

• continue to talk about the militias Brotherhood fraught with question marks, to the extent that some people said it might be a third party or «amusement Invisible» in the bloody events experienced by Egypt?

- The militias are the black box of the Muslim Brotherhood, does not rule out the possibility that a third party is to be, especially as the history says, they only political organization which resorted to armed force, not Alovdion nor communists nor any faction to do so during the last 100 years.

• Do you have documentation to demonstrate what you are saying?

- I do not have documents, but there are many evidence ranging from the burning of sections at the beginning of the revolution up to the events of the Federal, and a former interior ministers revealed to me that the Muslim Brotherhood in collaboration with Hmsaoyen from Gaza were burned 28 departments and stormed the prison days of the January 25 revolution, and they themselves do not deny that they have armed personnel.

• Do you detect Where are training these militias?

- In the desert of Alexandria and Cairo and the desert between Alexandria and Matrouh.

• Are these militias are well secured from the headquarters of the Freedom and Justice Party cadres and houses?

- Yes, they are securing these headquarters.